Discussion Forum
Residents' parking

Posted by Helen T
Tuesday, 24 April 2007

Last night we saw a number of notices posted on lamp posts regarding charging for residents' parking in Hebden Bridge. The ones we saw were on Hangingroyd Lane and Hangingroyd Road (opp Co-op).

As many people ignore such notices, I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of people that use the residents' parking permit scheme that read this site.

For most residents there is no alternative to on-street parking, so it may seem to the Council a good way to raise extra revenue from residents in addition to Council Tax. People may wish to register their objections to the scheme with the Council. They have until 12 May to do so.

Posted by Jacob
Tuesday, 24 April 2007

The proposed new parking scheme - paying for permits - does not entitle anyone to a space. It merely allows parking if you can find one. I clearly recall Calderdale Council stating that they didn't see any problem with on-street parking when they granted permission for the Melbourne Mill development.

Posted by Tim
Tuesday, 24 April 2007

Anyone got any idea how much these permits will cost?

Posted by Tim Swift
Tuesday, 24 April 2007

The scheme was voted through as part of the Council budget in 2006 but is only now being implemented. Labour councillors have consistently voiced concerns about this scheme, but Tories and Lib Dems appeared happy for it to go ahead.

The cost for the first permit will be £25; if residents have a second car the cost will be a further £50; and for a third car, £100. There are fairly complex rules for providing a limited number of free passes for visitors.

I would urge any residents who have concerns about the scheme to put in a formal written objection before 12th May.

Posted by Helen T
Thursday, 10 May 2007

Just a reminder for those intending to send their objections to this scheme in writing. Saturday is the Council's deadline.

Posted by Councillor Janet Battye
Thursday, 10 May 2007

Can I underline the importance of people responding to the Traffic Notices around the Hangingroyd Road area (by Sat May 12th).

Residents Parking schemes seem to have become very complicated: there are about 3 different schemes within Hebden Bridge and the wide variation in charges (or none) doesn't seem to be fair ! So we are trying to collect information about how it affects people, and people's views on it.

Posted by Ron Taylor
Wednesday, 16 May 2007

Can anyone tell me where the Lib Dems really stand on the issue of charging for parking permits? I understand they were in favour of it last year at Calderdale Council level and yet now when they realise residents may not be in favour they are putting out leaflets which suggest that this may not after all be the case (although they seem to be hedging their bets) and asking people to sign their petition.Please come clean and stop trying to be all things to all people.

As far as I am concerned the issue of parking in Hebden Bridge is a community wide issue and any costs in dealing with it should be borne by the community as a whole rather by people who just happen to live in a particular area of town and have nowhere else to park other than outside their homes.

Incidentally at a recent meeting a prominent local business man suggested that fee for permits should be as much as £300 per annum. He is usually to be found around Bridge Mill.

Posted by Councillor Janet Battye
Friday, 18 May 2007

To respond to questions about our position on this -

Along with the other political parties, we have been involved in discussions at Calderdale Council's Regeneration and Development Scrutiny Panel about parking permits where we have been looking at what approach needs to be taken across the whole of Calderdale (ie including Halifax, Todmorden etc) and specific local issues (eg. Halifax and Hebden Bridge town centres).

Our stance is to make sure that any necessary charges are fair, take account of the local situation, and local people are consulted (and their views listened to).

Parking in Hebden Bridge has been part of the work of the HB Traffic Review group which has had wide membership from within HB, and has been serviced/supported by Highways Officers from Calderdale MBC.

As your (LibDem) Councillors on Calderdale, we understand that there needs to be a balance between making parking provision for local people (shoppers, shopkeepers, residents of the Town Centre) and visitors. We've been trying to argue for as much provision as possible - I'm particularly keen on seeing a larger (small multi-storey ?) car park at the railway station. At the same time we do need to encourage people to use public transport to reduce pressure/make HB greener !

In particular, I've also been arguing for a fair approach to any charging for residents' permits but I do want to know what residents think. If there is to be a residents scheme (to protect their spaces), it will need some administration and enforcement.

What do people think ?

Posted by Helen T
Friday, 18 May 2007

Janet asks what people think.

Well most of the local residents I spoke to think that they are being penalised for living centrally and being used to subsidise tourist parking. Living in terraced houses, many of which are also back to back or under/over dwellings, they have no alternative but to park on the street.

There are also people I have spoken to living on unadopted roads which are not maintained by the council and they think it's a bit of a liberty to charge them to park there.

The visitors' permit scheme is very poorly thought out.

All in all, we do not think that charging us to park where we live is in any way fair and we don't see why it's necessary. It will just drive some us to park outside of the operational area of the scheme and make life and parking miserable for the people living in those areas.

Posted by Jacob
Friday, 18 May 2007

Calderdale's parking services currently make a profit (see their website), so why are residents, who have no option other than to park on the street, being asked to subsidise shortfalls in other areas of the Council's budgets.

Interestingly, Calderdale Council did not meet their inspectrate targets this year, resulting in £700K less budget allocation than they were anticipating.

Perhaps a review of their organisation and service delivery might be more appropriate than introducing punitive permit charges.

Posted by Tim
Friday, 18 May 2007

How about if you don't want to pay the charge don't have a car - if you live in town centre you are very near to buses and trains which I find much more convenient. With the money you would spend on tax, insurance, HP repayments, the £25 parking permit and maintainace of your car get a taxi or hire a car/van when the public transport won't do the job.

Ducks head down below parapet :-)

Posted by Myra
Friday, 18 May 2007

Tim - well done on being brave enough to be the first to say this. Up to now I have been too cowardly!

I can't imagine why so many people think they should be entitled to store items of private property on public land without incurring some kind of charge.

If you own a car, when choosing where to live you need to consider where you will keep it. This might restrict your choice of home somewhat, but no more than a non-car owner is restricted by the need for access to public transport.

Posted by John-1
Friday, 18 May 2007

Lack of consultation and information on this hastily concocted plan to balance the council's books at the expense of the minority continues, and seems deliberately tailored to make it as difficult as possible for those residents to be affected to avail themselves of what should be a democratic process.

Is our local council learning from the example of No. 10? Certainly Calderdale seems to have a reputation for lack of consultation.

Justifying these disproportionately large “charges for parking permits” as necessary admin costs reminds one of repeated media exposure of spin, intended to mislead us, by central government.

Most of the residents in the areas which are being targeted in various parts of Calderdale seem to be old people, single mums, hard-pressed families, and young tenants who can't afford to buy, and are trapped between a rock and a hard place; unable to afford to live elsewhere, unable to park anywhere else except at their kerb, on the land in their deeds, in front of their terrace, and frequently losing the parking competition with visiting shoppers and the out of town workforce, as existing local parking areas are closed or sold off cheaply by the council to build flats with insufficient parking allowance, for yet more people.

Indeed, the residents of Hebden Bridge being targeted live on streets that are almost without exception purely “residential” and not in the “town centre”; a category used to justify charging.

To add insult to injury, these Hebden Bridge suburbs, and presumably those of other affected areas in Calderdale from which the council plans to crop this unreasonable and disproportionate additional tax, consist to a large extent of private unadopted streets, where residents face increasing street maintenance costs, e.g. as setts laid well over a century ago start to crumble.

Instead of trying to conceal this unjust tax as a "parking management" charge for this minority in society who don't want it, and can't afford it, and who are ill equipped to resist it, the powers that be should enter into a full public debate, with a view to spreading the cost fairly as a tiny charge across the whole borough, or finding some other way to raise their funds; if, that is, they are unable to manage within their budget on the one hand, while slashing services with the other.

I notice that it is particularly easy to write to one's MP using the “they work for you” link in Google. I shall certainly be doing so.

The They Work For You link is also in our useful sites section - webmaster

Posted by Jacob
Monday, 21 May 2007

Tim and Myra... I applaud your decision not to have a car. It is ecologically laudable and leaves space for those that do need a car. I do, however, think it is terribly selfish for you to assume that others needs are the same as your own. Hebden Bridge is well served by public transport - and it is well used - but the car parking in the station is inadequate and many people work in places, or need to visit people that live in places that are not easy to reach effectively by train or bus. Furthermore, Tax is paid through both Council Tax and Car Tax to maintain the roads on which we park, so yes, we do have a right to park freely.

This is not about whether or not it is excusable to own a vehicle, but whether or not it is fair to apply charges inconsistently, specially where this is to fund deficits elsewhere in the Council.

Posted by Johnny Marascalco
Monday, 21 May 2007

£25 for a permit sounds like an absolute bargain to me! It must barely cover the administration costs.

If the scheme will help prevent vistors to the town taking up residents' spaces, and it costrs so little, what is there to complain about?

Posted by Adam C
Monday, 21 May 2007

I totally agree with you Johnny, for once. Even if they doubled it to £50 it would be a snip.

Posted by Anne H
Monday, 21 May 2007

I agree with the cost - many people pay a lot more than that for the extra cost of a house with a garage or off-road parking, or to rent a garage if there's one available close by. When you buy a house these days you have to consider things like where you will keep your car, and the risks and costs of keeping it there (lower insurance if it's in a locked garage etc.)

However, the Hangingroyd Lane area and the roads leading off it do seem to have been unfairly targetted. If you want to pop in to visit someone at the top end - say Mason St. - the nearest non-residents' parking is Market St or the co-op (if there's space). Visitors' permits are all very well if they know you are coming and there is a space to park, but I can see all sorts of problems with them. What if you have a party or a meeting and want to invite 20 visitors!

Posted by Helen T
Tuesday, 22 May 2007

As Johnny & Adam say £25 for a parking space not taken up by visitors would be fair enough. But that's not what people are getting. They are paying £25 that doesn't guarantee a parking space.

As ever with these Council schemes it's more complex than it initially appears, there is a lot of detail that may affect people that don't have cars, eg elderly people who require carers to visit, as there are also changes to the way visitors' permits work. It's all in the document which is available from the Council.

Posted by Johnny Marascalco
Tuesday, 22 May 2007

You're right Helen, £25 doesn't guarantee a space. But then you're not guaranteed one now either, and if I can pay £25 to ensure that only a neighbour can park outside my house, and not a visitor oto the town or someone doing their shopping, then I'll hand over my hard-earned cash with pleasure.

As far as having visitors (one or twenty) is concerned, given the dearth of available spaces, is anyone really going to be worse off in that situation?

Posted by Tim N
Wednesday, 23 May 2007

I agree John-1 the lack of consultation before making the order to introduce parking permits is fairly shady - however it may have back fired as can be seen by the massive annoyance it has raised. However the time taken to make representations has been extended to the beginning of June.

Jacob I agree that not everyone is able to make full use of public transport and from time to time needs to use a car. For some people it may be more cost effective to own a car outright. My point is if you take the 'average' running costs of owning a car:

Tax between £100 and £200 per year.
Insurance average say £300 pa
Maintainance and MOT £400 pa
Depreciation between £500 and £1000 pa
Petrol average milage £50 per fortnight = £1250
Parking permit £25 pa

That comes out at between £2575 and £3175 per year - you can get alot of bus and train journeys for that. E.g. annual travel pass for most of west yorkshire - £533 - leaves plenty left over for occasional taxis and car hire.

A pedantic point here paying road tax / council tax doesn't actually entitle you to park on the road, there is no right to park on the highway - it entitles you to pass and repass over the highway. This point of law is how it is possible to Councils to charge for parking on the road - as the system is called parking permit.

Posted by John-1
Wednesday, 23 May 2007

At a time when personal freedoms and democratic processes and various services, are being hacked away apace by those in power as they concurrently pile on extra charges left right and centre, maybe it's not so much whether I one afford £25, £50 and £100 for the family to park outsid, which incidentally,surely penalises 2nd and 3rd family car owners unfairly, but rather that enough is enough!

And it's not only that space won't be guarranteed, but that the council probably can't be relied on to discourage itinerant parkers, or restrain themselves from reliance on upping the charge any time they overspend.

Can they legally even ticket, clamp or tow where they will put no street markings in the cobbled conservation zone 426?

Council tax is a national system which is monitored for overcharging. However, parking management surely would be a local deal, and at their discretion.

I object to giving them such an ongoing open chequebook.
With the likely scenario of this being rolled out across huge swathes of suburbia countrywide. I believe there is a principle worth standing up for re' insistence on wider (ideally national) debate since the sums involved here are not far removed in terms of order of magnitude from that of council tax.

I believe that if such money needs to be raised, and there is little evidence of a need for parking management where proposed, it should be done equitably across the community.

Posted by Nigel Byfield
Thursday, 24 May 2007

Johnny said, "if I can pay £25 to ensure that only a neighbour can park outside my house, and not a visitor oto the town or someone doing their shopping, then I'll hand over my hard-earned cash with pleasure."

Bit Nimbyist, don't you think?

Posted by Johnny Marascalco
Tuesday, 22 May 2007

No, I don't think so. I'm not concerned about visitors to the town parking in my back yard.

Advocating this MBC policy is far from nimbyish. In any case, the term generally refers to matters of development.

This is simply a logical approach to managing visitor/shopper parking behaviour rather than have the Council stand by and watch the kind of parking fiascos that have occurred in say, Mytholmroyd? And suggestions that revenue generated by these permits is intended meet a budget shortfall are utterly ridiculous. Even if every resident of central Hebden bought a permit, there wouldn't be enough money left over to cut the grass on Calder Holmes park after the administration cost had been deducted.


Posted by Nigel Byfield
Thursday, 24 May 2007

So, then...

If a neighbour wants to park near your house, that's fine. If someone from outside does, that's not OK. Basically, this is an issue of not wanting Hebden's parking problems in your back yard...

However, from previous threads: if somebody from outside the area wants to build a development in someone else's back yard for their own self-gain then anyone objecting to it is fuelled by selfish motives of preserving their own community.



"the kind of parking fiascos that have occurred in say, Mytholmroyd"

Surely you can't be conceding that there might be a issue with what's happened regarding parking in Mytholmroyd? I thought what was happening was a reflection on those stupid enough to fall foul of the new procedures...

Posted by Johnny Marascalco
Friday, 25 May 2007

Nigel, if you had read my comments on the subject of Grange Dene parking, you would recognise that I was, and remain of the opinion, that parking for shoppers and traders was the responsibility of the MBC. Nothing is being conceded in that regard, which is very obvious. My comments here acknowledge the fact that the MBC have introduced measures in Hebden which are aimed at avoiding a conflict between residents and visitors with regard to parking, thus avoiding another fiasco, and not the same kind of fiasco. That is also glaringly obvious. The only similarity is that resident parking must be preserved for Hebdem residents just as staff and service user parking must also be preserved in Grange Dene.

Of course, you must be of such an altruistic nature that you would happily allow visitors to Hebden the use of parking designated for residents. Again, there is nothing nimbyish about my point of view, it's a very simple notion which I am surprised you have been unable to grasp. Residents need parking. Residents parking must be preserved or there will be conflict. A scheme such as this goes some way toward solving this problem.

Posted by Paul D
Sunday, 27 May 2007

Isn't part of the problem that we're all now suffering from the revised parking in town as the pressures are just being displaced elsewhere?

Going up Palace House road is a nightmare, people park all day on Burnley Road past Macpelah, Hangingroyd, Keighley and Victoria Roads are all mopping up those who refuse to pay the on street parking charges. We've got 50 barge owners without a garage between them, hundreds of day-trippers who all appear to stick their noses against Turner's window and moan at the price of a houses and a bag of chips and wardens all over the town like a rash. It's got to end in permits, whether we like it or not. The Town's sinking under cars and none of them want to pay to park.

Posted by Jan S
Monday, 28 May 2007

An issue for many of us is the way in which visitors to our homes will be dealt with. I've heard (though I'm not clear if it is the case) that it is proposed we may have 75 a year!

And what about when we have builders or other people working on our homes? What if we belong to the Hour Car scheme - will permits be vehicle-specific? Has anyone else more detail about these issues?

Posted by Cllr Tim Swift
Saturday, 2 June 2007

Contributors may be aware that the decision on charging for permits is to be taken at Cabinet on Monday.

The Labour group have made it clear that we are opposing the introduction of charges. In summary, we think it is unfair (resident parking schemes are often required because of other community decisions and not simply for the benefit of people who live their); unworkable (see the complex attempts to find a fair solution for visitors); and unnecessary (the income generated is tiny against the overall parking budget - no other council in West yorkshire has introduced such a charge - and enforcement can be funded from the imposition of parking fines, not from charges for permits).

If the Cabinet decide to go ahead, we will 'call in' the decision for scrutiny and referral on to full Council.