From Janet Oosthuysen
Wednesday, 10 June 2009

Hi
I wanted to start a new thread as I think that a long examination of whose fault it was that the BNP got in is unproductive and pointless. This is where we are. What can be done now?

I've thought for a long while that one of the things that we all need to do is fight for the hearts and minds of people who espouse these views. The left - whether inside or outside the Labour party - were too feeble in the face of an onslaught against immigration years ago. We should have loudly said in the media and anywhere we could that immigration was a good thing for Britain, that we were not "full", that the benefits of a multi cultural society massively outway the so called racial purity that the BNP call for. I include myself here by the way - Im not pointing blame - simply saying that we lost the immigration debate a long time ago and the BNP have benefited ever since. We should have won that battle of ideas ages ago.

Im firmly of the opinion that its fear that makes people vote BNP, fear that the little they have will be taken away, that their "way of life" will be taken away, that their jobs that are insecure anyway will disappear - and when fanned by vicious and clever fascists, and when the major parties have left them alone that fear multiplies.

So. What can we do? For it's not enough anymore to say "vote for x" or how bad it is. We - all of us- need to do something. Together.

I've got a few ideas but actually I - and other members of the local anti fascist group Unity - want to hear other ideas. And then act on them. To sit back now will allow the BNP and other far right groups to have the momentum.

From Michael Piggott
Wednesday, 10 June 2009

Janet, I feel that the whole spectrum of the Right - Nazi to Tory - has grabbed the momentum; of course, we may even see the b******s fighting it out between themselves, although I'm not relying on that to stop them.

The BNP will remain a threat until they cease to exist, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that 'New Labour' have delivered us to a Tory government: the 'de facto' one we have now, and the real one to come (next year at the latest). For the immediate future, the main threat to our living standards and rights comes from the Tories, both 'de factos' and the real ones. And the Labour Party leadership, the PLP and the government are totally incapable of defending us.

Inside and outside the Labour Party, we need to build a united, left, socialist labour-movement front. It's never been more urgent! But how?

From Janet Oosthuysen
Wednesday, 10 June 2009

Michael,
If we could find a way to build a united left we'd win the Nobel peace prize. I absolutely agree that's what we need, and agree "how" is the problem. Many of my comrades in the Labour party say we can do it in there. I would love to be convinced of this as like you, from your other posting, the Labour party has my heart even if its an abusive relationship at the moment.

The right, both Nazi and Tory certainly have the momentum, but we can take it off them. (How naive do I sound?? Still believe it though) My own feeling is we have to concentrate on grassroots campaigns. Theres no point relying on elected representatives - actually there never was. It's our responsibility. We need to get involved as much as we can in any way we can. And we need to start winning the war of ideas by putting those ideas to people who havent heard them or arent convinced of them. Even if its just letters to the paper or having that conversation that seems a bit risky in the pub. Because one of the absolute principles I hold is that all of the little things we do add up, and because once again Edmund Burke - all that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing.

From Allen Keep
Thursday, 11 June 2009

Yorkshire and Humber Unite Against Fascism have called a demo this Saturday in Leeds. Assemble 11 am Woodhouse Moor (Hyde Park) Would be a good place to start?

From Susan Press
Thursday, 11 June 2009

I agree with Janet that the political parties have fought shy of quelling the myths about immigration and doing enough to espouse multi-culturalism.

Labour has fallen into this trap with its immigration quotas and demonisation of Muslims plus appalling rhetoric like "British jobs for British workers." All that has to stop.

But credit where credit is due and Labour's track-record on opposing the BNP at grassroots level has been a good one.

I don't think the "don't vote BNP" tactic worked. People needed to vote Labour ro keep the BNP out and we did not get that mesage across. People alos allowed their anger over MP's exspenses and domestic policy to cloud their judgement and we lost a very good MEP, Richard Corbett.

I do, despite everything, have faith in elected politicians. Most MPs do a good job and our local Labour MPs have been amongst the strongest voices against fascism.

But we need to press for more liberal immigration policy, scotch the racist myths and not pander to them, and most of all press for Government policies which will address people's fears re jobs and housing and promore a fairer, more inclusive society.

From Allen Keep
Thursday, 11 June 2009

"But we need to press for more liberal immigration policy, scotch the racist myths and not pander to them, and most of all press for Government policies which will address people's fears re jobs and housing and promore a fairer, more inclusive society."

I can feel the BNP quaking in their boots already at the challenge from this sort of prospectus for a way forward.

Having a nicer immigration policy won't cut it and nor will saying we don't like rascism. Promoting a more inclusive and fairer society is what Brown advocates every week. What does it mean?!

In any case, all of this suggests that we should focus on better govenrment, better electoral policies, better candidates. Trust me-that won't stop the Fascists.There has to be something else we can do?

We need to win people to actively joining with others to expose,challenge and where possible confront the BNP in the unions,in our communities and on the streets.I'd love to hear some ideas that don't lead down the same old blind alley of transforming Labour.

From Susan Press
Thursday, 11 June 2009

Why is transforming Labour a "blind alley"? The blind alleys have been proved to be minority parties.If these elections have proved one thing for me, it is that Labour Party members (myself included) need to get out there and campaign. The Labour Party has thousands more committed activists (still) than any of the adventurists on the far left. I didn't campaign as I should have done on the Euro elections. And am guilty as anyone of allowing disillusion with national Govt to give the BNP a boost. But I remain convinced that if all the anti-racists work together we can defeat fascism. Labour can be transformed. And, to be frank, it needs far less transfoming than the sectarian left.

From Howard T
Friday, 12 June 2009

Sometimes, I have the belief that those BNP types got into office through the democratic process.

If a right-wing mob attacked and routed a left-wing law-abiding democratically-elected press call outside Parliament, I would think it disgraceful in a fair and decent democracy.

But I'm worried; with having views like this I can't decide whether I might be a fascist or a nazi.

From Allen Keep
Friday, 12 June 2009

I'll do my best to ignore the default response that goes; socialist not in Labour Party equals far - left (perjoratively), "sectarian", "adventurist" (this last one does sound like fun though). The short answer to Susan's question is that Labour is a blind alley because it is inherently incapable of bringing about fundamental change in society - or more importantly, in terms of this discussion, giving a lead to the fight against the BNP. For a more in depth answer I suggest Susan asks those who have left or will no longer vote for Labour - plenty to chose from. But these arguments are best conducted elsewhere.

I believe the vast majority of activists who are raging against war, capitalism, the environment crisis ,racism etc are not in the Labour Party and won't be signing up anytime soon. The majority aren't, I suspect, in "minority" parties either but it does mean that significant numbers of people can be won to united activity against the Fascists that can take place outside of the Labour Party and the project of transforming it and independently of building a minority party - whichever is your thing.

Maybe we could focus, as Janet suggested at the beginning of this thread, on that and how we can work together to get some oppositional activity to the BNP off the ground?

From Janet Oosthuysen
Friday, 12 June 2009

Hi all
Just to let you know in response to Alan's sugggestion, that the start place for the demo tomoro has changed to outside the Art Gallery on the Headrow, Leeds. Hope if you're planning to go that you get the message!

Ive got one of those family versus politics situations and as my daughter is coming back after 3 months interrailing, I wont be there - after all Ive said! But I'll be there in spirit. Sometimes the political is personal.....

From Graham Barker
Friday, 12 June 2009

May I make a suggestion: stop talking to each other and start talking to the people who vote BNP. Rather than just attack one set of prejudices with another and call it campaigning, get in there and do some market research. Live, work or move among those people. Share their experience and leave your ideology at home. Find out what bugs fundamentally decent people so much that they vote for a pariah party. Dig below the obvious. Find out what it will take to make them switch brands, and respect their views and wishes. If you don’t want to do that, all you’re left with is the ‘we are morally superior’ position - which is probably what opened the door for the BNP in the first place.