Referendum
From Chris Barnett
Monday, 27 June 2016
Clement Attlee said that a referendum was alien to our traditions, and "has often been the instrument of Nazism and fascism".
A bit of an exaggeration you may think, but we have just witnessed our country being utterly changed by a referendum whose outcome was largely based on the fears and ignorance of many people being shamelessly exploited by the lies of (a few) politicians and (most of) the media, with precious little from honest and decent politicians to counter the stream of nauseating dishonesty (but that's another story).
We now have the bizarre situation where many people are regretting the way they voted immediately after the result was announced. "Can we have another go please? We didn't think we would win, we just wanted to be listened to".
There is one possible way that we could step back from the brink. This decision can only be implemented by Parliament repealing the 1972 European Communities Act. That's the way democracy works in this country.
Anyone who wants to try and put a stop to this nonsense should lobby their MP to vote against this bill when it comes before Parliament. I understand that our MP feels that we should stay in Europe, but I don't hold out too much hope that he (or any other MPs) will do the decent thing and stand up for true democracy against the distorted outcome of this referendum.
From Cllr James Baker
Tuesday, 28 June 2016
This referendum was sadly fought on an entire set of issues that had very little to do with leaving the EU. What democracy is there when large sections of the media conspire to peddle lies and untruths to deceive people?
Tim Farron has indicated that the Liberal Democrats will be fighting the next general election on a platform of taking us back into Europe.
We will be giving a voice to the 48% of people who voted remain.
We will also reaching out to the 52% of people who voted leave. We will explain why leaving the EU will not deliver the things they were promised, and why we need Liberal solutions such as democratic reform, improved education, housing and health to tackle the problems they face in their daily lives.
We are holding a public meeting on 29th June 7.30pm in the Terrace Room in Hebden Bridge Town Hall to talk about where we go next on the issue of the referendum. It is a meeting open to non-members.
From Graham Barker
Tuesday, 28 June 2016
Please, not more myth-making from sore losers. It's condescending in the extreme to assume that people who voted Leave (and only Leave, funnily enough) were seduced by wily politicians and the media. A majority of voters will have had years, even decades, to form an opinion about the EU and most votes will have been rock solid. At the margins some may regret their choice - and that will cut both ways - but the fact is that a question was put to the vote and one answer prevailed over the other. That's the way it goes in a democracy.
For the losers now to try to overturn the result on the grounds that the winners 'didn't understand' would be a massive act of treachery that would pretty much kill off belief in democracy. The repercussions might then be extremely unpleasant. If you really want to encourage the rise of the violent far right, that would be a good way to do it.
From David Tut
Wednesday, 29 June 2016
The results are now out in the EU referendum and also the euro football championship and the only thing that would make this a great outcome and not all gloom is to take this opportunity and finally take our withdraw from the Eurovision song contest or am I asking too much?
From Chris Barnett
Wednesday, 29 June 2016
I've never been accused of treachery against the principle of democracy before, but I suppose there's a first time for everything.
We live in a parliamentary / representative democracy, but the referendum comes from the tradition of direct democracy. There are arguments for and against both, but I personally think that direct democracy is often a very flawed form of democracy, and one that has been abused by dictators in the past.
And, for the record, I'm not a sore loser - I'm both sad and angry that a cynical exercise in political expedience has brought us to this sorry state.
From Dave R
Wednesday, 29 June 2016
I find it very disheartening that only the 'vote leave' community are perceived as being at least gullible or at worst uneducated, in the post referendum debate.
Within my family and friends, there are inners and outers. None of them have made their decision based solely on media coverage. Each has their own reasons for their choice, and I respect that.
To keep harping on about a second vote on the grounds that people did not understand what they were voting for is both insulting and patronising.
Regardless of our opinions, we need to present a united front to stand firm and proud within, or on the periphery of a rapidly unstable Europe.
From Chris Barnett
Wednesday, 29 June 2016
Blimey, now I'm being accused of being insulting and patronising.
For the record (again), I'm not talking about a second vote. The result of this referendum has to be approved by our Parliament - like it or not, we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
There is a big difference between the two, and it is important that people understand how our democracy works.
From Cllr James Baker
Wednesday, 29 June 2016
If you were sold a product on the basis of which you were sold a leave vote then you would be able to take the seller to court on the basis that you were conned. The £350M extra for the NHS now apparently wasn't a promise, ending free movement wasn't promised. People will rightly be angry when they realise the extent to which they were lied to.
Yes a small majority were for leave - But those of us who wanted to remain also deserve to have a democratic voice going forward. Who knows what public opinion will be in 10 or 20 years time. Even what it might be in a few months time once the lies of the leave campaign unravel.
We live in a parliamentary democracy, that parliament made the choice not to make the referendum result legally binding. It will be down to parliament whether to follow the result and the view of the public, or if public opinion shifts whether to then represent that that new view.
Given the leave campaign didn't have a clear plan for Brexit we also need pro-European voices to argue for as close a relationship as possible with the EU. That is why there is a need for a clearly pro-European party to remain and offer that democratic choice to voters going forward in the future.
UKIP existed for years despite there having been a vote to take us into Europe. There is no reason why a pro-European party can't exist, and perhaps one day in the future the next generation will want us back in Europe.
From Graham Barker
Thursday, 30 June 2016
Bit of advice for Cllr Baker: the opportunity for the LibDems, if there is one, is in reconciliation and consensus, not in making inflammatory comments that simply widen the gulf between Leave and Remain.
From Dave R
Thursday, 30 June 2016
My comment wasn't meant to be taken personally, rather to be viewed as the way the media per se are/were portraying the outers, but if the cap fits Chris?
But, then the youth are blaming the old; the educated blaming the uneducated; the political parties blaming each other; a government in chaos; an opposition party with in-fighting…
From Chris Barnett
Wednesday, 6 July 2016
I really thought I could start a meaningful debate about the referendum, but it seems to have run out of steam. Probably just as well, as I could see things were in danger of becoming a little overheated.
Still, at least the topic of dogs is, as usual, stirring up plenty of debate on HebWeb. Nice to see that the people of Hebden Bridge know what really matters in this troubled world of ours.
From Michael Murray Elder
Wednesday, 6 July 2016
I'd just like to propose a vote of "thanks " to all those wonderful people who have facilitated by their various statements the frightening & disgusting upsurge in racist incidents. The people responsible for such acts probably didn't even vote but they now believe it's open season on foreigners & remain MPs risk their lives. England has really developed.
HebWeb News: Hebden Bridge voted to remain in the EU. Votes in the Calder Ward were: Remain: 4545. Leave: 2986. The 80% turnout was the highest in Calderdale by far. Source: Cllr Dave Young.