Redacted on Hebweb
From Victoria Uttley
Thursday, 27 April 2023
If it wasn't such a serious subject that Dave rightly brought up I would be saying "blimey I've been redacted on Hebweb." Not their choice I may add. Should I expect big bouncy balls on my street aka 'The prisoner' anytime soon?
From Bill Smithson
Friday, 28 April 2023
Part of the threat of legal action against Hebweb will, of course, prevent them from revealing which person or organisation has made the threats.
Therefore we will never know, but I can make a wild guess and it will be affecting my voting intentions on Thursday.
From Kate Anstee
Friday, 28 April 2023
I agree with Bill Smithson's post above entirely.
From Christopher Reason
Friday, 28 April 2023
It is one of the crueller ironies that the only party which hasn't fallen for the gender woo is the Tories. As many people said on the other thread – politically homeless.
From Anon 15
Friday, 28 April 2023
I'm so disappointed in the Labour Party both locally and nationally. I feel as many do on this forum that there is no party that reflects my political views. It's far too right and upsetting. I wish I could be public with my name but I can't for fear of the organisation I work for being targeted. I have never in my 33 years of voting spoilt my paper but I will be doing this time; to show publicly in the vote that there is no choice in this local election.
I hope many others who are as lost as I am do the same. Because let's face it the Labour Party will just see it as success if we don't.
From Michelle Jones
Saturday, 29 April 2023
Always been a Tory voter, but did vote for Blair. I was adamant that I would no longer vote for the party, and vote Labour this time. Sadly, I feel more afraid of what they stand for at the moment than I do about the Tories and what they represent. Very sad times.
From Jae E
Saturday, 29 April 2023
Michelle, Goodness! I am a life-long Labour voter and am so desperately disappointed with them right now, but please, please do not vote Tory again.
I do empathise with your disillusionment. However, this 'blue' party you have supported in the past is not the Conservative Party of 2023. It is now so far to the right as to be dangerous: eroding human rights, trashing the 'checks and balances' we've come to accept as 'our protection?': the legal system-broken; NHS- broken, etc., etc. They are a national disgrace, and are sowing division around the country - it has in it's present form, manifest as a bunch of self interested, narcissists - JRM presenting GB News?! Charlatans.
If you are as decent a person as you appear to be by your contribution on this site - please don't vote for them again until they clean up their act.
No one is pretending that KS has all the answers, indeed, he was not my choice to lead the Labour Party, but come on . . . the ERG? Brexit? Covid PPI corruption with billions either wasted or worse - given away to their cronies? Jonhson, Raab; Williamson, Patel and Party Chair - Lee Anderson - humoured to appease the 'red-wall'? Not forgetting Whittaker, elusive MP in Calderdale? The Need I go on?
I shall be spoiling my ballot paper in protest at voter ID which, is yet one more travesty to add to the above list.
However, you must surely realise, Michelle, that we have little real democracy in the UK as it stands?
Until such time as the Labour Party get's behind full PR - we shall be stuck with Tory governments that only 26% of the UK voted for! Does that sound democratic to you Michelle?
Best Wishes to All
And please, please, vote with your conscience and, for the common good, if nothing else.
From Anon 16
Tuesday, 2 May 2023
The current discussion on the gender identity movement on Hebweb is timely and welcome. It is an issue where many people feel unable to express their personal viewpoints and one where evidence is often absent.
The numbers of people who identify as trans was collected for the first time in the last census and showed that: 48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans man; 48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans woman; 30,000 (0.06%) identified as non-binary.
By way of comparison, the percentage of the population that reported a disability is around 17% in England.
It is striking that the voices of a group that, as we are often told are marginalised and oppressed, are having this impact on so many parts of public institutions. In addition to the individuals who have lost their livelihoods in academia, there are many other examples of the gender identity movement creating conflict with women's needs in the field of sport, in schools and the criminal justice system.
The NHS has also been influenced by the gender identity movement. For example, the removal of the word 'woman' from many parts of the NHS website – the ovarian cancer landing page on the NHS website does not mention women. It states: "Ovarian cancer affects the 2 small organs (ovaries) that store the eggs needed to make babies. Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer, but it mostly affects those over 50…. ". In contrast, the same introductory text on the testicular cancer page says: "Cancer of the testicle is 1 of the less common cancers, and tends to mostly affect men between 15 and 49 years of age."
The loss of the word 'woman' in public health messaging carries the risk of making messages harder to understand. Particularly by those of lower literacy levels or people who have English as a second language. Rather than being inclusive, it risks excluding some groups and increasing inequalities.
Furthermore, in the NHS, the guidance on mixed sex wards (which new Labour worked hard to eliminate) has now been amended (see Annex B) to essentially allow any man self-IDing as a woman to request to be on a woman's ward.
Of particular concern is the effect of the gender identity movement on children as seen by the pattern of referrals into the gender identity clinic at the Tavistock. From around 500 referrals a year in 2014, referrals rose steeply to just over 2500 in 2018/19. They then started to plateau and fell off slightly, only to then rocket in 2020/21 and rise to 3500 referrals in 2021/22. What could have happened in 2020 that might have led to such a rapid change in the pattern of referrals? Perhaps a pandemic with many teenagers deeply isolated, anxious and heavily exposed to online content?
Furthermore referrals are not evenly distributed across the population – which would expected for an innate phenomenon. Rather, referrals show some concerning patterns. From 2009 to 2013, referral patterns for boys and girls were similar. From 2013 onwards, however, the referrals from girls started to outstrip referrals from boys and by 2018, the referrals from the girl population were 1700 compared to 600 boys – nearly three times higher. This trend has continued but is now harder to measure as the services do not always collect information on the sex of the child referred.
When the wider characteristics of girls referred into gender identity services are examined, they show that compared to the average population girls referred into gender identity services are more likely to be same sex attracted, and to have an autistic spectrum disorder.
On referral, children can be offered puberty blockers as a way of 'pausing' puberty and giving them time to think. This is based on the Dutch protocol. However, this protocol from 2006 lacked long term follow up on a sufficiently large population to know the full effects of puberty blockers on children. Now that more data is becoming available, it is apparent that the puberty blocking drugs don't allow a harmless opportunity to pause and reflect. They prevent the body going through important changes during puberty (which are much wider than our sexual reproductive system) and can leave individuals with lifelong medical problems. In light of this, countries – such as Sweden - that adopted the Dutch protocol earlier have now moved away from it.
In England, the troubling issues surrounding gender identity services in the UK have been examined by the Cass Independent Review. The review recognised the need for profound changes to the way gender identity services are provided, including much greater attention being paid to the wider psycho-social aspects of children referred. The Cass review also says that social transitioning should be avoided – something that schools are still doing often without parental knowledge.
Whatever any of us think regarding the gender identity movement, we should be deeply concerned that children in our society are moving down medical routes that are unlikely to address the root causes of their distress and will leave them with long term harm.
That public institutions have embraced the gender identity movement, so unquestioningly, does, in my view, make them complicit in this harm. That parts of our society actively seek to close down discussion is unconscionable.
It is time that our society has the full, evidence based debate that is needed.
From Liz Anstee
Wednesday, 3 May 2023
Wanting to discuss this issue doesn't make us transphobic. Shutting down discussion means a solution to the clash of rights that this argument is about is further and further away.
From Jae E
Thursday, 4 May 2023
Anon 16, firstly, I'm really sorry that you feel you have to be 'Anonymous', but I respect your decision.
You are extrememly well informed.
Thank you, for informing me also. It is very disturbing to hear that the NHS, in its aim to be 'inclusive' has become prejudicial - against women.
As a women of 64, I have, like millions of others around the world, struggled to gain parity in so many areas of life, personally, and professionally - with men, and within the Patriarchy of our system. To know that now the NHS has attempted to reduce my standing to that of a ''person with overies'' - defies rationale intellect.
However, this nonsense - and it is just that, nonsense - is so ludicrous as to make me smile, rather than making me angry, which would only serve to make me ill.
So in that spirit, I'll just remind all those lovely women out there of the words of Helen Reddy: Aussi singer who, put it so beautifully in the 1970s:
I am women hear my roar,
in numbers too big to ignore,
and I know too much to go back and pretend.
For I've heard it all before,
and I've been down there on the floor,
and no ones ever gonna keep me down again.
Oh, Yes, I'm wise,
but it's wisdom born of pain.
Yes I've paid the price,
but look how much I've gained.
If I had to, I could do anything:
I am strong. I am invinsible.
I am woman. (1971)
RIP Beautiful, peaceful, talented woman.
From Anonymous (I am not a number!)
Saturday, 13 May 2023
As a trans man, I just wanted to offer a touch of support and empathy to you, Jae E.
I am - alas - one of those 'people with ovaries' with a full beard, who lives each day as my life as a man, and who has thoroughly confused a couple of NHS nurses with my need for ovarian ultrasound scans. I found reading your celebration of womanhood and your good humour genuinely touching, and while I personally am not a woman, but I am delighted to be in your company as a fellow human with ovaries.
I confess to finding the debates that many people enjoy having about the existence of people like me, quite exhausting and saddening, so I'm loathe to engage with any of the rest of it, but I sincerely hope that the impact of this change in NHS language to include people like me doesn't impact the quality of your life or the medical care you receive. Our needs and existence can never diminish your womanhood, or the love I and many trans people have for the women who are our mothers, sisters, and comrades.
In solidarity and care x
From Anon 17
Tuesday, 16 May 2023
I have every sympathy for people who feel that their gender does not match their biological sex. What is at issue here though is that the word woman has been removed from the NHS websites giving information on health conditions that affect them. Why not simply add that those conditions also affect trans men and women who identify as non binary? After all women are 50% of the population. Men of course have retained their title when referencing conditions that affect them. Misogyny has reinvented itself.